It gives you something impossible
and makes you suspend your disbelief and believe that it's real.
And it completely changes everything.
As an actor, I can say this, and I definitely think as a viewer as well,
you just believe it, you're in it.
The characters you've created, they're human.
You know, there is a side to most of these characters
that you could go and actually appeal to.
Just when you think you like someone, this is what they're capable of.
Or just when you hate someone a hell of a lot, they do this act of generosity.
It was just wonderful to sort of get more into Cersei
and sort of reveal her inner self.
You realize that he has to do what he has to do to save people's lives.
And then he's now got a destiny as well.
We've been lucky enough to actually cast it exactly the way we wanted to.
This is the best cast I've ever worked with. They never complained.
That's 'cause they're afraid of being killed off.
(ALL LAUGHING)
So the second book in George Martin's series is A Clash of Kings,
and the second season follows A Clash of Kings.
And it is... There are now...
You know, whereas the first season, Robert Baratheon was the one,
commonly accepted king.
Now there are four, five, maybe even six people declaring themselves kings. Um...
Who is the rightful king?
- LIAM CUNNINGHAM: Stannis. - Joffrey Baratheon.
CUNNINGHAM: It's absolutely Stannis.
- How is it Joffrey? He's not even a... - (LAUGHING)
Yeah, obviously it's Dany, but...
I don't know, technically at the time for you guys, I suppose, it's Stannis, obviously...
But it's not really, 'cause you're just usurpers. All of you.
So, Michelle, Robb talks a lot about not wanting to be king. Do you buy it?
Do you really think... I think he's protesting a little bit much.
Do you think he would like to sit in the Iron Throne?
It's lovely to watch and have those scenes with Richard
because you see the natural progression as well
of a young man,
taking on the mantle of authority.
And I think the more he becomes used to it,
and the more success he has, the more confident he becomes,
and the more he wants to be king.
In your mind, when you're playing Dany, why does she want to be queen?
Why does she think she has the right to be queen?
It's something people questioned you on for the first time this season,
nobody ever asked why.
It was just... it was what was. 'Cause now in this season, everybody's pushing you.
And they're asking you, "Well, why do you think..."
I think that it's something that she just can't control.
It's something that is just... It's a destiny that she has.
And it's so kind of shocking to her that it's ever gonna be questioned,
because it's like, "if I had a choice, I wouldn't do this, I wouldn't go after this.
"I wouldn't be given the situation I've been given.
"I don't have a choice. It's been thrust upon me."
She's being presented with arguments that she can't fight against.
Dany is incredibly intelligent and strategic and she's working out her game plan.
So she's practically putting the crazy life she's had up until now into use,
and I think that's what we see in season two for Dany.
You sort of see her trying to be taken seriously.
Because at the same time, she's got dragons,
you'd think that no one would argue with her.
But, she's still a woman and she's still desperately trying to be taken seriously
and trying to show that she's not just a kid.
BENIOFF: Well, you bring up a really interesting point,
which is that she's trying to be taken seriously, partly because she's a woman.
I mean, how does that relate with Cersei,
in terms of obviously very different characters, very different story lines, but,
in terms of what she confronts as a woman, in a world where
women are second-class citizens?
LENA HEADY: Well, Cersei's got, obviously, the two brothers.
And she talks about it, she says, "You know,
"he was taught to fight, he was kind of given everything.
"And I was sold, and taught to smile."
Um...
And I think her first thought with Joffrey was, "We're gonna do it."
With her powerful son,
and now this has all turned into an absolute disaster.
And she can't say it.
'Cause she steered it.
But her fight, as a woman,
and just generally being easily disregarded, um,
I think that just bites her all the time.
She doesn't have Jaime there to confide in, and she's only got Tyrion,
and she comes to a breaking point,
where she does try to, but they're so dysfunctional that it doesn't work.
WEISS: That's one of my favorite bits in the season.
Where she realizes the only person she can talk to, even remotely, is her brother,
who she loathes, but they share so much history
that he is the only one who really understands.
And they try to have that moment and fail.
To me, that was really effective...
Well, there's that wonderful moment where you're saying to Tyrion,
you're the only one who's taken it seriously. Jaime has always been,
there's kind of a sense of entitlement with Jaime,
where everything came easily for him, he's the eldest son.
- Yeah, yeah. - He's the great fighter and everything.
He never took it seriously, then of course Tyrion makes a joke about it.
And this moment where you're revealing a lot about yourself,
he just uses it as ammunition.
It's all fallen on me.
As has Jaime, repeatedly, according to Stannis Baratheon.
Catelyn makes a decision to release the Kingslayer,
the most valuable prisoner that her son has acquired.
And doing it without his knowledge.
Do you think it was the right decision?
I genuinely think it comes from, with Catelyn, it comes from a very honest, loving place.
She wants her daughters back.
She is deceived to go on to become the deceiver
because Littlefinger gets to her
and he plants the seed in her mind
whilst giving her her husband's bones.
I think it's something that very gradually builds.
Because even in that scene, she said, "Do you think I keep secrets from my son?"
So she, at that point,
it's never going to happen.
But, gradually, over the course,
this need, this burning thing of this wish to get the family back together...
WEISS: You learn what's happened to your sons at Winterfell
and that they're in jeopardy.
One thing we haven't talked about, which I always found fascinating about her character,
is her relationship with Jon Snow.
And just how much she loathed Jon Snow for so many years.
And this is the woman who is so loving in most ways with her family.
But doesn't consider him a part of the family. He's like this alien who's been brought in.
In a lot of ways, Jon is betrayed by many people close to him.
Like Catelyn betrayed him.
His father betrayed him by not telling him the truth about who his mother is,
or what the Wall's like or the realities of things.
Uncle Benjen says he's coming back, and he doesn't come back.
You know, there's lots of people that betray Jon in his life.
What's your name?
- Jon Snow. - Snow, eh?
Listen to me, bastard.
All you lot from south of the Wall, you're Southerners.
Wildlings versus Night's Watch, seems like the wildlings have a better deal.
Yeah, there's more of them.
WEISS: And, you're...
(LAUGHING)
And there's a big scene in season two,
a couple of scenes where Ygritte touches on the fact
that the wildlings kind of have some things to offer
that the Night's Watch does not have to offer.
Do you feel, like, some real ambivalence starts to creep into the equation?
I think he does, he does have that struggle in that
he is, at the heart of it,
he's a man, and as such, he craves what men crave.
Which is company and women.
But, I think, the whole of the second season, where he's talking to Ygritte,
and being tempted by her and teased by her,
it's pretty hard not to look at that side of things and want it.
So, he does have that struggle.
And I think he really is tempted to
run off like Mance Rayder did and go and join the wildlings,
which towards the end you see him do to one level or another, I suppose.
You never really win an argument with her.
She always gets the last word.
HARINGTON: Well, she always seems to leave him in the...
Like, she leaves him with the last word and then she goes.
And he gets really turned on by that, I think.
It sort of really floats his boat.
And Rose, who plays Ygritte, was fantastic.
Just amazing actress and just so brilliant to work with.
And she nailed that kind of teasing quality.
How old are you, boy?
I'm a man of the Night's Watch.
You're a boy who's never been with a girl.
BENIOFF: You got to go to Iceland for three weeks.
WEISS: Yeah. CLARKE: Yes!
Tell us about beautiful Iceland.
HARINGTON: Iceland was just stunning.
It's the most amazing landscape.
When you fly in, it feels like you're landing on the moon.
And that's exactly what we needed for Beyond the Wall scenery.
So, I think the one worry that we all had is that it was so alien looking,
that people watching think this is all CGI, when it isn't, none of it is CGI.
- It was -35 one day. - (ALL EXCLAIMING)
it was so cold that people's beards froze to blocks of ice.
There's a shot of Samwell talking to Jon Snow
and in one shot, his face is basically clean,
and we cut to Jon and then we cut back to Samwell,
and it looks like he's become Father Time.
And just behind the camera, me and John can just see David Benioff laughing.
- (ALL LAUGHING) - Which is, like, such professionalism.
So, looking around the table, all these characters are of noble birth.
Even the bastard has noble heritage.
Davos Seaworth, on the other hand, comes from Flea Bottom,
the worst slum in all of King's Landing, and his father, as he says, is a crabber.
He made his living as a smuggler.
So, it's nothing we've really talked about before ever,
but, what do you think of the class differences and interacting with...
The fact that you're now interacting with men who would be kings?
Well, I think what's got him there is his loyalty.
And the fact that he has the gift of lateral thinking,
which is, he helps Stannis,
and Stannis holds his thoughts in such high regard
that he can be swayed.
And I don't think he's... Davos is certainly not the type who's...
There's no ambition, I don't think it's an ambition.
Duty was probably at the top of his list, or his attributes.
I think he's of the opinion that the truth will set you free.
And it's why he's so devoted to Stannis.
BENIOFF: Do you think Davos believes in this...
At a certain point, in the beginning, he seems like a definite non-believer.
He's a real skeptic and he talks about going all around the world
and everyone's talking about their god.
And he's seeing people pray in all different languages, it never works.
But then he sees Melisandre
conjure the shadow demon or give birth to a shadow demon.
There's no denying that that happened.
So, what do you think he believes?
- CUNNINGHAM: Well... (STAMMERING) {CHUCKLING)
Sorry, I was listening as a listener, it was just quite strange.
We're talking about, very seriously, the birth of the shadow.
BENIOFF: Yeah.
CUNNINGHAM: Well, exactly... I think your point is a good point.
That the world we're in...
We know that dragons existed and all,
but everything is kind of out there.
It's myth with evidence of it being real.
So, I think...
It's not like the real world with somebody giving birth to this weird creature.
It's something that has come from a world that they've tried to push away.
And now it's coming back into the world.
It's the same with the dragons coming, it's the same with this coming in.
It's incredibly scary, incredibly dangerous, but not beyond belief.
And I think there's an acceptance in that.
And I think it's one of the strengths of the show, is that you can have this stuff.
It's a wonderful extra element to the reality of the whole show.
And I played that as it being scary and life-threatening,
but not so ridiculous.
The opportunities that it opens up are extraordinary
and incredibly unusual for a drama.
I think it's testimony to the caliber of the characters
that are written by George and by you guys as well,
that they can kind of...
You're so sucked into the layers that they have as people,
and as kind of a drama in itself,
that you put the fantasy on top.
As an actor, I can say this, and I definitely think as a viewer as well,
you just believe it, you're in it.
Throughout the whole of season one, you get little tasters
and, at the back of your mind, you're sort of working it out
'cause you believe the characters as people.
BENIOFF: Catelyn has that scene with Brienne
where you're talking about what you've seen, the shadow demon that's assassinated Renly.
And this is your first encounter with the supernatural.
And it just seems like you've been a skeptic about it as well.
You're a very practical woman.
From Catelyn's point of view, it's, in some way,
her role in the second series is about negotiating.
It's about going and actually...
Which is wonderful with the characters you've created, they're human.
There is a side to most of these characters that you could go and actually appeal to,
and as a mother say, "Please stop fighting."
So, there's a possibility of achieving that with real people,
but, with supernatural, you can't.
You're playing a completely different game.
And it opens up a completely terrifying option,
which is, you cannot control it.
And when she has that scene, when she is there negotiating with Renly,
and suddenly this thing happens.
And it's the fact that she has seen it as well.
She can't really describe it, but she knows that this is evil.
There is something evil here.
What's interesting is that, all four characters,
not Cersei, but the other four characters sitting at the table,
have encounters of one kind or another.
You see a White Walker for the first time.
And then just how that shades everything about going Beyond the Wall.
HARINGTON: Yeah, that moment where he sees the White Walker picking up the child
changes everything for Jon.
Up until that point, he's ambitious, and he wants to rise in the Night's Watch.
The minute he sees that and he sees the supernatural force
which is bigger than the wildlings,
and bigger than any kind of agenda he has,
I think it does change him.
And he suddenly, things get more serious.
You realize that he has to do what he has to do to save people's lives.
Then he's now got a destiny as well.
It completely changes his mind,
his mindset about what, you know... After that moment,
he gets very, very serious about what he has to do.
And he stops being so selfish, maybe.
He knows he's got a job at hand.
There's a lovely scene which I loved playing,
which is the one where he's telling Commander Mormont he saw something.
And Mormont's there saying, "Yeah, you did, but, it's good that you did."
BENIOFF: And you realize that he's known all along
that these sacrifices are taking place.
And it's a really horrific moment.
I saw
something take that child.
Yeah. Whatever it was,
I daresay you'll see it again.
WEISS: Everybody at this table,
has had some very emotionally challenging things to confront.
Maybe we could talk about that a little bit.
Talk about what you all personally thought
were some of the most difficult scenes dramatically to tackle.
I really loved the way you guys kind of built up a relationship
with Matthos, and that they had.
He does challenge him and I really liked the whole thing
that my character is uneducated,
but he's loyal and his heart's in the right place.
And he's got street smarts.
And this bizarre situation,
where his son has been brought up and educated
and his son is now trying to better him or get him to better himself.
I love that journey.
Because their relationship was so lovely with each other.
It is. it would be so easy to mock the religion of the fire god.
But then, he has that really wonderful moment that the two of you played together
where he's talking about praying for you
when you're off at sea and how you always came home.
Yeah, on a boat, that was...
But it's also really evident the pride you take in your son,
and the fact that he is literate and that he will be a knight someday.
And that he is someone who is so trusted by the King,
that he is writing down the king's letters.
That seems very real.
CUNNINGHAM: Yeah, he's got a future and to have that all taken away,
I think it just adds a great pathos to the whole thing.
It's what's wonderful about the show
is those interpersonal relationships and the loyalties.
I have faith in the Lord of Light.
I have faith in our cause.
And I have faith in my captain.
What was it like to work
half your season on a boat,
that was built in a parking lot, and pretend like you were actually at sea?
CUNNINGHAM: Well, everything I look at is still green.
(ALL LAUGH)
It's so weird.
I've got monochrome retinas now.
No, it was wonderful, it was wonderful. And especially episode nine, with the war.
And Neil Marshall who directed that, I've worked with a couple of times before.
Because it was so involved and technical and image driven,
it was...
I consider myself lucky that we had kind of a shorthand.
Of course, episode nine, is in some ways the centerpiece of the whole season,
culminating in an attempt or a thwarted attempt by Cersei
to kill her son and commit suicide.
And to get to that place, it was probably the most emotional we've seen Cersei.
Or at least, pushed to the most desperate.
That was kind of extraordinary to film anyway because I've got a little boy
and you can put yourself there for sure.
She doesn't want any harm to come to her children.
And so, she's like, "if I take his life we'll be together."
BENIOFF: That scene is a beautiful performance.
It's such a tricky thing because you're telling your son,
almost like a little fairy tale.
And you don't wanna let on that you're so frightened
because you're trying to calm him.
Well, you know that thing with children, when they fall,
or if they look to you for...
Yes, "Is this scary?" And you go, "No!"
And if you go... They totally feed from that.
And so, that was part of the reading,
was not inferring what was coming or that it was horrifying.
How did you feel, Lena, Cersei's character...
We learn a lot more about her in season two, when she's at home.
So much of season one, she's on the road, or she's up at Winterfell.
Tell us about the differences working
and you got to work so much with Peter this season which was a change.
HEADEY: It was great, it was just wonderful
to sort of get more into Cersei and sort of reveal her inner self a bit more.
And so, just to sort of let it go a little bit more.
And then, of course, her relationship with Tyrion
is kind of immensely challenging.
She's got a huge hatred for him and a massive respect at the same time.
And she kind of wants to be him, in some ways.
I think she wants to be both her brothers,
so to sort of get into all that especially with Pete,
who I've known for a long time, and I trust and I love him to pieces,
was sort of exciting.
And it was just edible for me this year. l loved it.
WEISS: We were just talking last night about how interesting it is
that the personal love that you guys have for each other
translates so effectively to sibling rivalry and hatred on screen,
how the comfort level you have with each other lets you go to that place.
HEADEY: Yeah, 'cause you feel safe.
And you're not questioning anything.
I was pretty violent to Pete on one occasion.
Get out! Get out!
BENIOFF: That's an effective shove, because he falls down.
And I remember seeing it and thinking, "I don't remember us writing that."
But it works so perfectly.
I know and I said, "Pete, I'm so sorry. That was..." and he went, "I love it."
I went, "Okay."
- Good. We're good. - (ALL CHUCKLING)
BENIOFF: So, on the betrayal theme,
Catelyn and now Robb Stark is also,
he is deceived by friendship.
For instance, in trusting in Theon. And you're advising him not to.
You're desperately trying to convince him not to do it.
It must be immensely frustrating
just for the character to wish she had power,
as opposed to just being the one who can whisper...
- FAIRLEY: And give advice. - Yeah, right.
Also, I think, in the nature of that relationship as well,
it's that thing of not wanting to emasculate either.
You can't go in and say, "No, don't do this because it's terrible."
You know, um... And also, "I don't trust that person."
You know, he is a man in his own right and he has to make decisions.
And sometimes, it is better for a parent, I think, to, rather than humiliate them,
to let them make their own mistakes.
Because that's how you learn.
What's it like working on the show back in your homeland, Northern Ireland?
It's wonderful, it's... (STAMMERS)
A lot of the time, this year, particularly, for my character, a lot of stuff was interior,
like in tents and stuff,
but on the few occasions when we did have exterior,
they were the most stunning locations.
Just so beautiful.
Like at Ballintoy with the rope bridge?
And then up on Fair Head, where I used to go when I was a kid.
And when we were on the horses and then you could see Rathlin Island,
and then you see Scotland,
and if you go that way, it's America.
And when you're up on this precipice
and you really can see the world is round 'cause it goes like that.
And you got to spend a month in Croatia,
- which, some people did not get to go... - CLARKE: This is true.
FAIRLEY: Yeah, rub it in, David, why don't you.
- (LAUGHING) - BENIOFF: Tell us about Croatia.
Croatia was amazing. Croatia is just so beautiful.
And it's just insane that we managed to find somewhere
that already looks like the world of Game of Thrones.
It was ridiculous. But, yeah, it was amazing fun. We had a good time.
Where are the dragons?
Will you betray her again?
Never.
Daenerys famously is betrayed several times over the course...
- Several times. Yes. - BENIOFF: ...of the series.
Your character is not aware of all of them yet, but...
- CLARKE: No. - But one of them, one of your most trusted
handmaidens... What was that like?
Well, 'cause it caught me unawares, it caught me when I wasn't looking.
I was concentrating on these crazy people in Qarth not believing me
and she's not just sitting on her laurels, waiting for stuff to happen.
She wants to go and actively cross the Narrow Sea and take back the throne
and start making an active attempt to fulfill the destiny that she's got.
So, she's not looking when that happens.
She doesn't have anybody that she can rely on or trust,
and the only thing that she has is these things that she's created.
These dragons, and she puts everything into them.
Her destiny, her hope, absolutely everything.
So she's pretty untrusting of people as it is,
so then when, I think, this happens, it's like, "What?"
BENIOFF: Yeah, you were saying about, this isn't the life she would have chosen
it's just what she's been forced into,
and it almost seems like her temptation in the House of the Undying,
like The Last Temptation of Christ for Dany,
is being in a tent with Drogo.
Her first love and her son.
She could just stay there, it all seems so real, but she can't.
CLARKE: No, because she knows that at the same time
as that being what she wants,
it's not, because so much of who she is, is her destiny
and is what she's been placed to do,
so it's like, "I wouldn't be happy being here with the man I love
"and my unborn child.
"Because I have to answer to
"what makes who Dany is."
And I think that's the beauty of the books,
the beauty of the characters, and the beauty of the storyline,
is that, that's life and that's what happens.
Nothing is easy.
(DRAGON SCREECHES)
And goodnight.
CLARKE: We need some music. Theme music.
(ALL SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY)
CUNNINGHAM: And then it'll slowly go into silhouette.
Bring the lights down...